FeedBoomcar ordinance is worse than the crime
March 28, 2006 in Local Tags: bass, boomcars, noise pollution
If one hates litter, does it naturally follow that one should support shooting litterbugs on sight? Why should I support a plan to seize private property without benefit of due process because the driver got caught playing a car stereo too loud?
The Peoria City Council will vote on an ordinance that will let police impound a car if the driver
playing the stereo too loud:
The ordinance, modeled after one in Rock Island that has been found constitutional, would have violators pay $250 to get their cars back in addition to fees for towing and storage.
Currently, the city’s ordinance says loud music in a vehicle shouldn’t be heard 50 feet or more away, and violators face a minimum $200 fine.
If today’s proposed change is adopted, the allowed distance would increase from 50 feet to 75 feet. There are also guidelines for court hearings for those protesting the seizure.
“I think it will be pretty widely well received,” said City Manager Randy Oliver. “This is a tremendous quality-of-life issue that we continue to hear about from the neighborhoods.”
I bow to no one in animosity toward those monstrous stereo systems with the bass turned up so high that it rattles windows six blocks away.
But is the solution grab private property without a trial? What happens a month later if the judge tosses the case for lack of evidence, or lack of prosecution? Does the driver get reimbursed for the money he spent to get his car out of hock? *
There are laws on the books right now that allow for violators to be ticketed. And those tickets are issued occasionally. But unless we’re talking about a serious crime, the court system does a poor job of making people comply.
And exactly how is someone sitting inside a car supposed to tell what someone else can hear 75 feet away. A radio that can’t be heard 75 feet away during the din of rush hour traffic might get a car impounded at 1 a.m.
And I cannot stress this enough, the problem isn’t loud music. The problem are boomcars with the souped up stereos speakers designed to pollute the environment with bass vibrations.
Yes, this law would be a weapon against the
It’s easy to pass a law. It’s harder to look city and county employees (police, prosecutors and judges) in the eye and tell them they WILL be fired if they do not enforce the laws that are on the books now.
There is NO SUCH THING as a law that is so harsh in proscribed penalties that it prevents people from breaking it.
Instead of passing new laws, just instruct the cops to start writing tickets, then have the testicular fortitude to stick it out when city’s daily newspaper starts writing stories about those poor innocent teenagers who get caught.
*UPDATE: Yes, they get a refund, plus interest.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Could they maybe just make it legal for the victims to empty a paintball gun at the pimp-mobile as it passes by??
March 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
According to the City Manager, if the violator is found “not guilty”, they will receive a refund of impound and towing fees in addition to interest on those amounts.
This ordinance is better than what is not working now.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
I vote for the paintball idea.
BTW, it is a paintball “marker”
March 28th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Bill you are right on this one as well. I for one am sick of new laws rather than enforcing the ones we have. Gun control is the prime example. Since when has a new, unenforced law, prevented people from doing the prohibited deed? The consequences prevent people from doing it, not the law.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Did you read the whole Journal Star article?
It said the police DO enforce the current ordinance. 628 tickets were issued in 2004, and 662 in 2005. That’s an average of just under 13 tickets a week. That’s more than the “occasional” ticket, in my opinion.
Furthermore, the article goes on to say that the ordinance is modeled on one in Rockford that was found constitutional. So it appears the staff have done their homework on this one.
If people would just be considerate of others, we wouldn’t have to pass laws like this.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Yes, I did C.J. That figure comes about two per day. It could have been 10 a day, judging by the number who drove past my former home on McClure.
I didn’t question the legality of the new ordinance, although were I a judge, I would not consider it to be Constitutional. I did question the fairness and morality of pre-adjudication confiscation of private property because of a NOISE ORDINANCE violation.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Bill Baby,
You’ve been spending too much time with Sandberg.
I believe impounding the cars of the inconsiderate asswipes who feel they have an absolute right to inflict their crap “music” on the rest of the world is the ONLY measure that will get these folks to consider the ears of others. They’ve tried fines. They don’t work. Wannabe Thugs don’t pay up. We’ve tried prosecution. The thuggy wannabes don’t show up to Court. This measure is one that just may get wannabe thugs to take the law seriously sooner rather than later. You know, before bratty wannabes become real thugs and learn the hard way… You know, like by being sentenced to 24 years in prison for firing a gun in a school hallway.
The law has already been deemed constitutional- and has been proven successful in a nearby community. Thank you Rock Island.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Bill, as you’re fond of saying, one definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. The police are already giving out over 600 tickets a year and it’s not making a dent. You really think giving out more tickets is the answer? How many tickets per day are enough to curb this? 10? 50? 100? If it’s not a serious crime, how could you justify the additional time/manpower necessary to hand out that many tickets a week?
Also, just out of curiosity, do you question the fairness and morality of pre-adjudication confiscation of private property because of a PARKING violation?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
Polly: I share your concern that Gary Sandberg is a bad influence. He is.
But that is not the point. I am concerned about the poor people, maybe working two jobs, who will have to pay the impound fee and the fine because they cranked their tunes a bit too loud on their drive home after work. These are not the peoeple making life unbearable in the neighborhoods.
The freeks with the boomcars are already covered by existing laws. If those laws aren’t working because of the court system, let the city administrators get city attorneys who can do a better job prosecuting these miscreants.
I repeat: There is no such thing as a law that PREVENTS crime. Laws only allow for prosecution of those who violate the letter — not the intent or spirit — of the law.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
CJ: Is the current rate of ticketing for for noise violations working? Hard to tell. How big a problem would we have if the rate were lower? Or, if it were higher?
Again, I wonder if the problem isn’t so much the number of tickets being issued, but the follow-though in the court system by prosecutors and judges. I want to know the conviction rate for these tickets before I woduld even consider supporting a new ordinance that lets police take peoples’ cars away from them for a non-safety violation.
I also would reserve confiscation for those cases in which the violator is using an augmented sound system.
And I am wondering what handicapped parking has to do with this issue …
March 28th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Who said anything about handicapped parking?
March 28th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Hey, pretty funny that the targeted ads alongside these rants feature car stereo amps to crank up the volume. Hahahaha
March 28th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
I like the idea.
Anyone been on Darst St in a while? Talk to the tow company/storage lot owners there and they will tell you that cars without a nice stereos get broken into nightly.
Put cars down there with $5k stereos in them and Darst St will look like JEfferson St during the Taste Of Peoria.
March 28th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
I’m sorry, but the bull about being poor or of a particular race is nonsense. Think anyone cares about the race, gender, economic status, age of the driver of the vehicle blasting music through their house? Personally it gets tiresome to hear about someone’s rights being violated, who has not accepted the responsiblities that come along with those rights. Suddenly everyone is quiet when it comes to holding people responsible for their actions. Cops are writing tickets. I have gone to court to testify and have had people found guilty. They get a fine and don’t pay. I did a ride along with a cop. She issued a loud music ticket. Before this went to court, I saw the same guy, same car twice blasting his music. I documented the dates and times for when I got to court. The dude shows up with his newborn kid, complaining his girlfriend dumped him and he didn’t have a job. Boo Hoo. You had plenty of money for speakers. And for the record the dude was white. I pulled out the other two dates I saw him. Wham, he got a huge fine. Now, has that fine been paid? The judge felt sorry because he had a family to raise and lost his job. So he was given plenty of consideration about paying his fine. Guess who was out blasting his music again. They don’t pay the fines. They don’t care. Take the car, get someone’s attention. Your car gets impounded because you let some moron drive and crank your stereo. Chose better who you lend your car too. If they commit a bank robbery, guess what? They keep the car. There is an average of 25 cars a night blasting past my house, most after 10pm. Have any idea how this effects sleep? You don’t accidently turn up your music that loud, you have to manipulate a volume switch. It ’s not like you don’t know it’s loud. There is no excuse, it’s simple inconsideration. The last guy I confronted about his loud music had been blasting through our neighborhood for a 1/2 hour, selling drugs. I step out of my house to get his plate number as his buddy is dealing in front of my house. Dude askes me what I want. I say his plates for the cops, we’re tired of the loud music. Guy threatens to come back and kill me if he gets a ticket. Wonder what they would have found in that car had it been impounded? Factory stereos can kick out the watts as well. Again, common sense and some consideration. And apparantly a bike gang gets the council’s attention more than the significant number of neighborhoods that banded together to support this ordinance.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Neighborhood Leader, A bike “GANG”……….REALLY….. I wish I could simplifiy people that easily. Is that the quality and/or capacity that allows you the moniker, Neighborhood Leader?? It is Neighborhood Leaders that have that power to lump people of differeng view into disparaging categories that amaze me. If you can’t agree with them, or don’t like their looks, or certainly their music, demean them by negative characterizations.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:24 am
“There is no such thing as a law that PREVENTS crime.” I SO call bullshit. I hate to think of the things I would do to the numerous idiots I am forced to deal with on a daily basis if jail time weren’t involved.
I don’t care if you are poor, white, and blasting rap or a wealthy black executive blasting John Denver, it’s rude and inconsiderate, and both types/races/socioeconomic levels damn well KNOW it. Moreover, any brat who blasts music at a level that causes the foundation of my house to shake ENJOYS annoying the hell out of me and my neighbors, it gives them an immature perverse feeling of power.
This is NOT a matter of city attorneys sitting around picking their noses, unwilling to prosecute or go after these numbskulls. It is the mass numbers of people not taking the noise ordinance seriously that makes impounding cars necessary.
People who behave in such a manner are immature brats. Since they were never taught how to properly behave in a civilized society, they also tend not to see the necessity of paying their bills/fines, or taking responsiblity for their mistakes/actions/choices.
The best way to deal with an inconsiderate brat??? TAKE HIS/HER TOYS AWAY.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:35 am
Polly: Really, now. All a law does is proscribe that people who committ certain bahavior can be punsihed for those behaviors, without a framework of due process.
And I live for the day when those who advocate zero tolerance policies and summary -on-the-spot punishment regarding the crimes they find most objectionable and subject to the same lightning swift justice regarding the ordinary “crimes” they committ throughout the day. Got caught driving the the market without a seatbelt? Lose your car. Answer the cell phone call while sitting at a red light? Lose you car. Didn’t notice the “handicapped” parking sign? Lose your car. Slow and but stop at a red light? Three miles over the speed limit in a school zone?
March 29th, 2006 at 10:35 am
” I want to know the conviction rate for these tickets before I woduld even consider supporting a new ordinance that lets police take peoples’ cars away from them for a non-safety violation.”
BTW: Loud music IS a safety violation. This is why it is illegal to use a device that has headphones while driving. Music played at such high volumes makes hearing emergency vehicles sirens. Last year there was an ambulance driver in Downers Grove (I think) who was killed when a teenage driver blasting music failed to hear an ambulance siren and thus failed to yield to said ambulance in an intersection.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Polly,
Music that can be heard 75 feet away from the source is not loud nor a “safety hazard”. With that as the standard to allow the seizure, the enforcement will cast a very wide net.
In the frustration to deal with the agregious inconsiderate a^%#(%holes an ordinanace should NOT over reach and allow for the confiscation of private property with such a low threshold.
To expand seisure laws to simple ordinance violations where historically they have been used for at least Class A Misdomeaners diminishes the class of crimes such as Felonies, Class A misdomeaners that confiscation laws may have merit.
At times, I really wonder if those who expouse expansion of police powers really think of the community they are creating.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Hows this? If the ordinance provides probable cause for pulling the car over it can’t be too far a leap to find a reason to search the car. I’m betting these assholes as Gary puts it prolly got sumpin sumpin in their badass whips that’ll buy ‘em some cell time.
Now dass whut ahm tahgin bout!!
March 29th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
30 people show up on motorcycles, sporting essentially the same logo on their jackets, then rally outside afterwards. Call it what you want, club,…semantics. There was not any disparagement or judgement, simply a statement. People are welcome to wear what they want, listen to what they want. Unfortunately many of us don’t get to choose, because when others turn up their music, it invades our houses. It’s not just a few people it’s common place. Much like litter. People could care less if it effects anyone else. Same criminal type thinking goes with much more serious crimes, it’s only a matter of degree. I have been out in various neighborhoods where people are even afraid to come out of their houses, this is creeping further north past War Drive. Within 10 years Northmoor will be the line. We continue to allow or even advocate for people to become prisoners or victims in their own homes. With rights go responsibilities. This is just sad. We must become accustomed to pausing our conversations, phone calls, reading, watching tv or even listening to music of choice because some inconsiderate person is pumping their choices though our homes until they get 6 blocks away and the ringing in your ears stops. 75 feet is nearly 2.5 houses approximately in many older neighborhoods. (When reality much of this music can be heard from several blocks away). But using the proposed ordinance, with say 4 people per house, 10 people on either side of the street plus the block on the street on either side of the intersection is another 70-80 people. that’s 80-90 people disturbed per block, per car, mile after mile after mile. Figure a good 20+ cars a night and there is no question that people are tired of it. Apparantly these people are worth sacrificing or maybe they should just move from the city and be replaced by those who will not complain like good sheep or people beaten down by the lack of response from community services that should be protecting them. Do I advocate for a police state, not really, but many are so tired of fighting for their own life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that they are ready to give up. These are the folks that jump in when when the city needs volunteers, that pick up litter, that work with kids, and yes that help with campaigns. They are the ones that continually get disappointed. The rest of the people, simply must either not care, or believe that they will not be listened to regardless. It seems that many have made up their minds, much like the school district’s choice for school location in the East Bluff. Where is the concern that with each passing car, our freedom erodes more and more?
March 29th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Speaking of bikers, do Harley riders know that mufflers are available?? I’ve been just as assaulted noise-wise by all the damn straight-piped asshole harley riders running aorund this town.
March 29th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
vonster & neighborhood leader
gangs and assholes thats what you two think of people who ride motorcycles. the people at the city council meeting tuesday that you so quickly judge as “gang” members, are also very active members in the community who are doing many things to help when people are in need. The ABATE members that were present at Tues. meeting come from all walks of life- rich, poor, young, and old and for you to so quickly judge by appearance shows your obvious ingnorance to life outside of your world. Myself as a motorcylce rider with a stereo, no doors and windows to keep my sound in, do not feel that this ordiance is the right approach. I sympathize with the nieghborhoods that are currently littered with loud car stereos, but I think that another approach is needed. If these people are being ticketed and not showing up for court or paying fines, after the first offense, then seize their vehicle. it’s all about responsibily. it is TOO HARSH to seize a vehicle on a first offense.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
hunter john
I agree as to motorcycle riders are not “gang” members but there aproach they use puts them in that light. As to loud car stereos how would you fix this problem? Fines? Doing that now and not solving the problems. Warnings? how do you track who has a warning? Driver? Owner? Most police shifts dont talk about what has transpired on there shift to the oncomming shift so who would keep track? Do nothing and hope it will go away? Take away the offending auto? It forces the person to pay before they get there auto back period. I think after a few autos are impounded the word will get on the street and it will quiet things down. This law is not a new law just a change as to distance and penatly. Is it to much to ask to have a quiet neighborhood?Point & period.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:34 pm
I find it interesting that people “know” what I think. Go back and read what I wrote and assume nothing more.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:16 am
HJ: I’ve never been bothered by a bike stereo as there’s no room for a 1000 watt sub-woofer set-up. I HAVE been very bothered by assholes who intentionally have the bike set up with straight pipes so as to be as loud as possible.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:38 am
It just occurred to me that the same people who tell us that the “boomcar” isn’t a black issue because so many white kids are doing it too are the same damn people who will (if they aren’t already) call this law racist because it “targets blacks”.
You can’t have it both ways.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
Martin Palmer & Vonster
Us motorcycle riders stick together as the old saying goes, united we stand divided we fall. We believe educate not legislate there are enough rules already on the books, use them. On this loud stereo issuse I still feel first time offense you ticket them. No warning tickets its gone past that you give them a ticket on the first offense. If they refuse to pay the fine or do not show up for court then you seize the vehicle. Seizure of a vehicle on the first offense of a minor infraction is to harsh. On the loud pipe issue some say loud pipes save lifes, alot of times people just dont see the motorcyle but they here it. I do believe there are laws against straight pipes and if a person chooses to put them on there bike they should be prepared to get a ticket I dont think this makes them assholes I think they make bad choices there human and I hope we all are.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
P.S.
Its not just Harley riders who have straight pipes. If your going to talk about motorcycles get your facts straight.
Alot of the motorcylists who have straight pipes have them to be heard. There tired of getting run over and run off the road by cars who dont see them and forgot there not the only ones who share the road.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:19 pm
I have to disagree, HJ: I can’t remember the last time I hard a rice burner with a loud pipe (I’m not talking about the jap HD wannabes) and my Eliminator always has had stock exhaust. I just hope that the cops can be urged to start pulling the asshole straight pipers over - of course, they run the illegal pipes either because the believe the myth of loud pipes save lives or they just have a childish fascination with the sound. Either way, no lives are saved - just other motorists annoyed.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:37 pm
vonster I hope your right about loud pipes save lifes is a myth . When that car runs you over I will be more then Happy to piss on your grave.
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:39 pm
To all,Loud pipes do save lives I was traveling Rt 116 on my loud Yamaha which I was not A wondabe Harley rider this was the bike of my choice I had a car starting to merge into my lane she was not paying alot of attention I was watching her in her mirror she started over I cracked my throttle then she looked in here mirror and seen me their which allowed me to get home to my family.My wife and I ride 8 to 12 thousand miles a year and I’m glad I have my loud pipes.Also anyone who has riden alot not just weekends and not just around town knows what I’m talking about.Hunter John to your last statement I will join you.From reading what I have read and the comments that have been made these people don’t know anything about bikers they are the nices people you will ever meet and the things they do to help everyone no matter if they are bikers or not the majority of us 98% support all types of organizations such as cancer patient,MDA,less fortunate children so we ride for all sorts of reasons and I myself and my family are glad we are part of this
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:42 am
George: That’s why they have horns. And yes I’m a very experienced rider who wouldn’t piss on anybody’s grave just because they disagreed with me.
April 3rd, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Vonster,You are correct about the horns but the beeb beeb doesn’t always work.I still believe that education is the answer to all motorists of all kind that is why I work as hard as I can to support this.May is motorcyclist awareness thats were all bikers of all kind need to work together.My apology for my comment but the attitudes of so many people angers me.Gang comments we are not a gang we are a brotherhood aimed towards education not legislation.The goverment controls us enough we need to keep trying to correct are problems are self so they don’t have to ammend laws to make the honest people pay for certain people that is were the first offence hurts l
April 4th, 2006 at 6:47 am
George!!! SPACEBAR!!!!
April 13th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
I think this law is overkill.
I’m sure bikers would agree with me that biker does not equal gang, just as a person liking loud music, does not mean there are drugs in a car. (as was implied in a previous post)
What happens to the 35 year old mother of two, who has her radio on with the sunroof open at a stoplight? Who’s to judge 75 feet?
Does this law apply only to subs or to stock speakers as well?
The taking of property for something that is not a felony is just plain stupid. It is also on the edge of being a 14th amendment violation.
Why not put a certain time limit on this, say after 11pm or something?
Does this city have nothing more serious to enforce? There are worse things going on for pete’s sake.
If bikes can be loud, I say to the bored kids of central Illinois, turn it up!
April 25th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
People need to be more worried about laws and things that really MATTER to people. Sure its annoying, but towing my car, becuase I had my stereo a little to loud during the day. There needs to be a time the violation starts. People need to stop assuming and desciminating so much!!!!