Pam Adams feels a draft, I say wear a sweater
May 31, 2006 in The Wire
There’s nothing inaccurate at all about Pam Adams column in today’s Journal Star, or its headline: “Draft boards ready to be activated.” Yes, there still are draft boards, and they are collecting names of young men as they turn 18. People are still are being asked to serve on these boards. And yes, it certainly is something to think about. But what she perhaps should have mentioned is that the majority of generals would rather gouge out their right eyeball that reinstate the draft, because draftees make horrible soldiers. The modern U.S. military doesn’t depend on warm bodies stopping bullets, but on technicians behind the lines supporting small, well-trained, highly motivated volunteers. The only people urging reinstatement of the draft are liberal Democrats in Congress.
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May 31st, 2006 at 10:50 am
Indeed some Dems are asking about the draft but so are the new so called Reagan Repubilicans. (They don’t align themselves with Bush anymore, wonder why) But let us remember, Cheney got 5 deferments in the 60’s, Bush never showed and Rush had a butt boil. In fact very few of our leaders served at all. So what is your point? Bush has drained the National Guard to a point where few even join anymore for fear of Iraq. Remember, in the 60’s, one could not get in the Guard without connections and in the 80’s it was cool to join the Guard because you got a paycheck for a weekend visit, did 2 weeks a year in some nice places, sometimes, and did basically nothing. Thanks to our retarded president, we are fighting terror in the wrong country of course when we got to Iraq, the terrorist did come to us. What a bonus.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:51 am
ed note: The Congress is controlled by the republicans so if the draft comes up and passes, it will be Bush Boys doing it, not the Dems.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:24 am
If people in this country shared sacrifice even something close to equal, we would not be in Iraq in the first place.
Getting rid of the draft was a Nixon masterstroke and in the end has done far more harm than good. For example, there has been no real debate over Iraq from the get go in Congress. One reason is because those in the armed forces do not have the representation that they once did.
When the influential have children in potential harms way, they also become more vocal and careful when it comes to war.
Secondly, the young, especially those on college campuses, have nothing to fear because of no draft and have more than gladly resigned themselves to letting others do their fighting for them.
And I really doubt Generals really give a crap about where their warm bodies come from. As long as they get them from somewhere, soldiers will be trained one way or another. Besides, your argument makes no sense - if Generals really believed volunteer soliders are so important and valuable, then why did they let the Bush Adminstration go into Iraq with too few soliders and end up in a place with no security where these valuable soldiers are being wounded and killed? Aren’t these valuable volunteer soldiers too hard to replace?
And might I suggest you read Michael Ware’s piece in Time, if you think grunts aren’t doing the leg work in Iraq right how.
Here’s a link to it..
http://www.time.com/time/archi.....01,00.html
May 31st, 2006 at 11:42 am
Mr. O’Brien sez: “I really doubt Generals really give a crap about where their warm bodies come from.”
I sez: You really show how clueless you are on this subject when you make that statement. I know darn good and well who is doing the footwork in Iraq and how it is being done. I have seen units that are combat ready and unit’s where they just say they are. I know of two separate units (both National Guard) patrol the SAME SECTOR weeks apart with completely different results.
You are WAY off base here.
Ask the guys who have been over there. I keep getting the same story - We are doing the right thing. We are doing good things. The NG troops are doing what they signed on to do. They are as good (or often better) than regular Army/Marines.
Sure, they want to come home. Who wouldn’t?
…and if you are biting on the red herring draft issue, you are simply falling for the rhetoric.
Draftees aren’t needed.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:57 am
Re: Anon E Mouse:
Amen brother (or perhaps it is sister)! You are right on target.
May 31st, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Anon E Mouse,
What the generals want is trained people and those people will become trained regardless of where they come from. Yes, some units will be better than others. That is with all things.
And as for soldiers feeling good about what they are doing, where did I type that they don’t? I have never typed that or said that. However, this is a very sticky issue - for to ask a soldier not to believe in their mission, is to ask a soldier to state what they are doing is not worthwhile.
Now, from my perspective, it is worthwhile when a solider stays alive and does what is asked of him or her. My complaint is directed at those who have asked these soldiers to take on this particular mission.
As many have said, the civilian leadership make the policy and the military either carries it out or figures out how to carry it out.
Toward your “clueless” remark, sorry, military vet myself and spent some time in the Gulf the first time around. So maybe you should ask before you start throwing comments around.
And you miss the point of the entire post - ALL Americans should be putting something forth in this effort, and slapping a damned magnet on a SUV doesn’t cut it.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:12 pm
I support our troops. Always will. I’m a Viet Nam vet and there were no parades or nice sticky magnets on he back of any SUV’s when I came home. In fact, when I arrived in SF on my way home, in uniform, I was spit on and refused service in the airport bar. Changed out of uniform in the men’s room. This war in Iraq was started by an idiot who is run by idiots and it’s all about greed. Bin Laden who?? Remember when Bush boy was first elected? Comment was; “Clinton could’t find Bin Laden becuase he was to busy having sex.” Well? Where is he now? Fact is, politicans running the whitehouse don’t give a damn about terror and our men and women pay for this everyday. Is this a waste of lives? No more a waste of lives than the 50,000 who died in Viet Nam.
May 31st, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Mr. O’Brien,
I highly doubt you saw the kind of sustained combat I am talking about. I respect your service, but please do not compare it with what these guys are doing. Going outside the wire for 12 hours at a time every other day is no picnic.
Also, I am to infer from your postings that the life of a draftee is NOT worth the same as that of a volunteer. Nice. Tell that to a draftees widow or orphan.
I called you “clueless” because it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Being a vet does not automatically qualify you for a “clue.” You obviously do not know, either from experience or through research, what being a combat soldier is like. I suggest you bone up if you expect to be taken seriously on the subject. Read a couple of books by Dave Grossman - “On Killing” and “On Combat”. It is much more than marching in a line and spending enough time on the rifle range to put holes inside a circle.
What is going on in Iraq right now is what went on in Somalia in 1993. THIS is the future of warfare. There will never be another “Normandy” where humongous numbers of troops storm the beaches and any warm-blooded fool who can carry a rifle will. Warfare is evolving. Draftees are no longer desirable. A few, well-trained, well-equipped, well motivated soldiers do more than much larger numbers of troops did in the past. If you look at Mogadishu in 1993 (”Blackhawk Down” Mark Bowden) this was a company strength action. Going back to 1991 and GW I, there was a squad of British Commandos that, when their undercover mission got blown (”Bravo Two Zero” Andy McNab) inflicted a tremendous amount of damage on the Iraqi Army. Most of the combat that takes place in Iraq these days occurs at squad strength.
Nobody in the military wants the draft back. I mean nobody. It is simply a political football - a scare tactic - to be tossed about by those who don’t have sense or guts to talk about real issues.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:26 pm
“Anon E Mouse”,
HOLD ON THERE. At no time did I infer that a person drafted is less valuable than a volunteer.
My point is that this frigging country is being carried on the backs of a few. That the greatest number of us are sitting back her safe and sound while a relatively few are carrying the water and if a draft was instituted, then the people that make these decisions might be a little more careful when making decisions about war.
In regards to Iraq, other then the soldiers, their families and loved ones, where and when have the American people as a whole been asked to sacrifice anything?
And exactly what are the issues you claim no one has the real guts or sense to talk about? Let’s hear them.
Now, what I find quite laughable is you make a comment about my own service without knowing a thing about it, and then suggest I “read” a few books while not even offering up information about yourself.
I know what my own service entails and no where, absolutely no where, will you find where I have compared my own service to that of these wonderful people in Iraq.
How about you?
June 1st, 2006 at 7:35 am
O’Brien sez: “HOLD ON THERE. At no time did I infer that a person drafted is less valuable than a volunteer.”
I sez: Oh, yes you did.
Obrien Said earlier: “And I really doubt Generals really give a crap about where their warm bodies come from. As long as they get them from somewhere, soldiers will be trained one way or another. Besides, your argument makes no sense – if Generals really believed volunteer soliders (sic) are so important and valuable, then why did they let the Bush Adminstration (sic) go into Iraq with too few soliders (sic) and end up in a place with no security where these valuable soldiers are being wounded and killed? Aren’t these valuable volunteer soldiers too hard to replace?”
So I sez: You call draftees “warm bodies” and call volunteers “valuable”.
For issues
As far as service to my country - I am disabled and could not pass the physical for military service. My buddy and his entire squad considered me the 10th man in their squad during deployment for all I did for them and their families while they were gone for 16 months. I cried when they left, not because I was scared or sad, but because I felt I should have been with them. They were on the front lines, outside the wire every other day, finding huge caches of weapons, IED’s, getting mortared, and arresting bad guys. I sent clothes for the kids in the neighborhood they patrolled. I provided the guys with creature comforts and laughs when they needed them most. And most of all, I studied, so I could understand what they were going through and help them through the experience and when they got home.
I have so much respect for these guys! And they are now telling me, to a man, that this is the right thing to do. That we are going about this in (generally) the right way. That we are protecting people and helping to build this country and that a majority of Iraqi’s APPRECIATE what we are doing.
Quite frankly, Mr. O’Brien, they convince me, you do not.
June 1st, 2006 at 9:15 am
All of your comments fail to address the real issue at hand here. That is whether or not regular soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen want to fight alongside someone who is required to be in combat because of the law or one who made the choice to serve. I for one, can say that if I was on patrol or guarding a convoy through Iraq that I would rather have a volunteer next to me instead of guy who is there because his birthday just happen to come up in a lottery. Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) and Counter-Terrorism (CT) operations are the new face of war and the high intensity and frequency of these operations require troops to be completely focused in order to succeed in their missions and survive. The thoughts of “how did I get into this mess, I didn’t volunteer for this” that are likely to be going through the head of a draftee are just one extra thought that doesn’t need to be there during a firefight. Its not about politics its not about making war an equitable endeavour for all Americans its about your battle buddy standing next to year and whether you can truly trust him to do his job when all hell breaks loose.
FYI The size of our active,reserve, and national guard forces exceeds 2 million troops, and the number currently in Iraq is about 150,000 so about 7.5% of our forces are currently deployed in country. You can argue that is too small of a number for the scope of the operation if you wish, but not that we have a shortage of troops. Just based on sheer numbers the necessity of a draft is laughable.
June 1st, 2006 at 9:59 am
War is about Politics. We wouldn’t be in Iraq to help those people if we hadn’t started this mess in the first place. Our own generals have told the public that we are stretched too thin. All I want is the WMD’s which is what we were all told we would find. Bush should be impeached on that alone. I dispute the 2 million troops. We may have that many in active and reserve forces in all branches of service. Navy, Marines, Army, Air Force. I read where Navy personnel are being assigned combat roles in Iraq. I think maybe too many here have been listening to way to much of FOX news.
June 1st, 2006 at 10:17 am
“Anon E Mouse”,
You completely spun your own intent on my words; intent that is not there.
To clarify, yes, leaders would always want the best qualified, however that is not always possible. But generals would take anyone from anywhere as long as they get the numbers. This is what training is for.
And if you doubt this, then why has the military been consistently lowering entry standards over the past couple of years?
The reason for my point about throwing in the word “valuable” is this: if volunteer soliders were so valuable to these generals, then why did these generals go into Iraq KNOWING they did not have enough troops to begin with? Go and read the many, many articles that are being written and have been written. Oddly, they all contain about the same phrases from unnamed sources, generals and military leaders that they have never had the numbers they have needed. What I’m trying to suggest is that if these generals think these soldiers are so valuable, then why other than for political reasons, are they allowing them to take on a mission they did not have the numbers for?
I did not intend for it to sound like I feel volunteers are more valuable than draftees. I suggest in the future you ask someone if they intended this or that before launching a broadscale and insulting remark.
One last thing, see, I am not going to be like you and insult you on your “non-experience” (like you did toward myself) because I do believe that people can be knowledgble about many things without actual experience.
11 Bravo,
Volunteers in the military also do the “I didn’t sign up for this shit” commenting just as well as anyone. The point I’m trying to get across here is that in America, not all Americans are providing for this effort and by bringing back the draft, this might decrease. For one, imagine if there had been a draft and children of influential people, college kids and others were faced with the prospect of a controversial war like Iraq. If so, maybe our political leaders would make a little more effort to provide a little oversight than what they have done with Iraq.
Certainly, we all want to work beside people who want to be there, but let me ask you this: just how much more loyal do you think volunteers are who go into the military for a job, college money or some other reason when compared to anyone else? As stated earlier, this is what military training is for and about.
As for your numbers point, I’m assuming you are talking about deploying soldiers from other bases to Iraq. Is that correct? If so, then what do with the places where these troops have came from? Leave them empty?
June 1st, 2006 at 10:51 am
sctobrien: “The point I’m trying to get across here is that in America, not all Americans are providing for this effort and by bringing back the draft, this might decrease. For one, imagine if there had been a draft and children of influential people, college kids and others were faced with the prospect of a controversial war like Iraq. If so, maybe our political leaders would make a little more effort to provide a little oversight than what they have done with Iraq.”
Thank you for proving my point. The only people calling for a draft are liberal Dems who want to see people thrust UNWILLINGLY into harm’s way because it helps advance their agenda.
The draft is amoral. A nation whose population will not willingly defend it’s form of government is doomed anyway.
June 1st, 2006 at 12:11 pm
obrien: Where do you think the troops that are in Iraq now came from? They don’t appear out of thin air, they come from other bases all over the country and world, they always do. The idea that we can’t deploy troops because they would leave bases empty is a ridiculous point.
You’re other argument that draftees would have the same perspective as volunteers when placed in combat is without any merit. That would be like saying prisoners are as happy to be at the jail as the guards. There is a difference, and you would be lying to say you wouldn’t care if the guy next to you choose to be there or was forced.
emtronics: I never said war wasn’t about politics, it is but it isn’t for the infantryman with bullets buzzing by. Its just about getting a job done so you can get home and when we play politics with the quality of soldier we place in combat we impair the ability to get the job done and that is sick and pathetic. Also, there are over 2 million troops whether you believe it or not has no affect on whether it is a fact. Look it up.
Also they are sending sailors to Iraq but not to go into combat, they are to stand watch at installations, something every member of the military is trained to do. They actually asked for volunteers from my little brother’s squadron at NAS Jacksonville and before he had a chance to sign up they had already recieved many more volunteers than they needed. That is the kind of dedication you get from an all volunteer force.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Bill,
No Bill, what is amoral is how the many in this country feel like they are doing their part by slapping a yellow magnet on their car or declaring they “support the troops” while actually doing little. Especially those that are beyond the reach of military service and enjoy throwing around flippant remarks like put a sweater on when the subject of a draft comes up.
11Bravo,
I guess the continuing “off the record” comments by high military leaders and others, both in the regular army and other parts, about how troop supply numbers are dangerously low means nothing then?
And going back to my sign up dates and taking the ASVAB (Armed Forces Vocational Apptitude Battery) I can’t recall a large number of people running out when they didn’t score as well as they wanted and found their military occupations limited, often times to infantry.
Like I said, this is where good military training comes in - soldiers then learn what it means to be a true soldier from good military training.
Also, as you know, people join the military for a variety of reasons and still function when ending up in a MOS they didn’t originally want. (Oddly, while I was in the army, I made a point of asking many, many soldiers why they were in the military and most replies involved replies such as a need for a job, college money or to get out of trouble. And this was from a wide variety of MOSs.)
Or to solve all this draft business, those who don’t want to be drafted into the military could instead be drafted into some other sort of national service.
June 1st, 2006 at 3:30 pm
O’Brien sez: “Or to solve all this draft business, those who don’t want to be drafted into the military could instead be drafted into some other sort of national service.”
I sez: Here you go again. There is no need for complusory service ANYWHERE in this country. 11Bravo hits the nail on the head. Bill even hits a home run with his comments.
This is the way all future wars will be waged. It is called Low Intensity Conflict. Look it up.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:23 pm
If the ASVAB comment was an attempt to insult me since I am an Infantryman (hence the name) I feel confident that the 99 I scored on my ASVAB was higher than yours. I would like to see some of these “off the record comments” you are referring to. I believe you are confusing criticisms of the Bush administration’s handling of the war which there have been numerous reports of. But the complaints about spreading the military too thin usually come from liberal congressman and not from members or former members of the military.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:49 am
11Bravo,
Not at all. Jesus. What is it about people around here that think every comment is an insult? Now you insult me by not thinking I would know what a 11 Bravo is (and to be honest with you, I would have to dig out my score, but can only say that upon entry, my score was high enough to go into any MOS - now, are you going to debate in a more intelligent manner or are you next going to ask to compare sizes?!?)
As for the off the record comments, pick up any issue of the three big newsweeklies. These comments are all over. In fact, pick up Michael Ware’s new piece in Time magazine. He touches on it there.
Or do a simple Google search. Just earlier this year or late last year the head of the Army Reserve made very public statements about having a very hard time filling slots.
And you can do other simple research to see that the Army has been relaxing signing up requirements for the last couple of years. They now accept some limited drug use.
And come on, quit with the “liberal” crap. REPUBLICAN Chuck Hagel from Nebraska has been making statements for the last couple of years about how the military is being stretched to the breaking point.
Oh, and what about the recent group of 8 generals and their comments. One was on MSNBC just last night talking exactly about our military numbers. I think you are being disingenuous when claiming these comments are not out there for other than “liberal” congressmen. Heck, even military hawk Democrat John Murtha (often called a DINO) has been commenting about this.
Anon E Mouse,
I’m glad you are so content letting so few carry the water for so many and apparently have no desire for other Americans to show true support other than in ways that mean so little.
What we need are people like the woman from this area that organized sundry packs for soldiers, or a country where its citizens do more for the families of those left behind.
But I guess you are content when families of reserve military members go bankrupt because their family members have been deployed for long periods of time.
June 2nd, 2006 at 8:33 am
You made the implication that those who scored poorly on the ASVAB were left with having to join the infantry, your comment not mine. I am merely speaking up for my branch. If you want to continue to argue the troop numbers issue than answer this for me, why is it that when we proceeded to call up hundreds of thousands of National Guard and Reserve troops for Desert Shield/Storm and had a force of over 500,000 in the Middle East for that operation we were not straining the military but now a force less than a third of that is breaking the backs of the armed forces. You can argue about the length of this operation compared to the length of Desesrt Storm, but the call up for the Reserve/Guard forces for that operation long preceeded the actual mission.
As for your final comment to Anon it has been pretty well reported that Reserve/Guard troops actually on average make more being deployed than at their civilian jobs. Thats not to say that there aren’t some who do end up in financial trouble but majority are financially better off being deployed.
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:02 am
Mr O’Brien sez: “I’m glad you are so content letting so few carry the water for so many and apparently have no desire for other Americans to show true support other than in ways that mean so little.”
I sez: Wrongo! I am far from content. I prefer to lead the way. I lead the way by example. I lead the way by encouraging others. I (along with a few others) led the way for two companies (plus) of mom’s, wives, and friends. I am intimately aware of the hardships faced by both those outside the wire and those who hold down the fort at home. I have personally organized groups to send things to the troops and clothes for the children they protect. I arranged for classrooms of elementary school students to send cards to soldiers and their families at home. I spent my own money on body armor for a soldier (that’s not cheap). I filled box after box and filled out customs forms until my hands cramped at the post office, then smiled and wrote a check for the postage. I really couldn’t afford it, but then again, look at what they sacrifice for me.
(Oh yeah, all the while trying to help hurricane victims - my wife created an organization for that - I made a trip to the gulf to help clear debris and deliver aid - she made several. Never mind my full-time job and four young kids.)
What’ve you done other than advocating this silly idea of a draft?
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:37 am
11 Bravo,
No, my point was that when I was up at the MEPS, I didn’t see a huge number of people run out the doors when their ASVAB score was not high enough to get them in the positions they originally wanted. In other words, they still selected an option or a second choice. YOU inferred something that was not implied. As I suggested to someone else, why don’t you try asking one’s intent, rather than wrongly inferring it?
Um, 11 Bravo, comparing the first Gulf War to this second one is completely different. For example, this one has far exceeded the time frame of that one. Also, the type of fighting has been greatly different. And as you mentioned in a previous post you even discussed this type of different fighting. Not only that, the so called “coalition of the willing” this time around has not ever came close to that of the first Gulf deployment.
And as I said, a simple Google search will get you the wide range of comments that have been out there and that are still being made.
Anon E. Mouse,
Again, you miss my point - what you are doing is something that more Americans should be doing, but are not. Sadly it appears if people do not have some sort of tie to the soldiers, then this war ends up on the backburner. And that has been my larger point in all of this debate.
And the reason something must be done about the use of our military is because when it comes to Iraq, our spineless politicians are not doing their jobs when they fall over and provide absolutely no oversite when it comes to the policies of the Executive Branch in matters of war.
June 2nd, 2006 at 10:51 am
Mr. O’Brien sez: “And as I said, a simple Google search will get you the wide range of comments that have been out there and that are still being made.”
I sez: You fail to provide a single actual source. ‘Google it’ is not presenting evidence. It is just plain lazy.
As for me missing the point, it is you who miss the point. As you stated,
“What we need are people like the woman from this area that organized sundry packs for soldiers, or a country where its citizens do more for the families of those left behind.”
I agree. What are YOU doing, Mr. O’Brien, other than advocating a “poison pill” to induce suport the troops? What are you doing to lead the way other than advocating we create MORE soldier and more families in need of support? (Anticipating your probable response, I already looked on Google.)
No, Mr. O’Brien, the answer isn’t to take the most drastic action possible. The answer is to show some guts and some leadership and get off your duff and do something yourself, first, and then encourage others to do so as well.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Anon E. Mouse,
How much simplier can it be than a Google search? I’m not going to sit back and do someone’s work for them, because anyone who has been paying attention should have seen a litany of people making these comments. But for you, here is a link to a Google page with plenty of links to articles…..heck, the lead one is even of probably one of your leading publications.
http://www.google.com/search?h.....tnG=Search
(If that link doesn’t work, just put in “more troops needed in Iraq”; also, why should I provide you particular links or quotes when most likely you will come back with, “oh, that is a liberal source” or ” that person is a Bush-hater.” If you do it yourself, then you can pick and choose your own source.)
Even over the past weekend Sen. Hagel was again on one of the Sunday talk shows discussing this matter.
As for me, I give money donations. There are plenty of collecting organizations out there.
Here’s one:
http://www.soldiersangels.org/
I guess you’d like a copy of my check register too, eh? (I know it is not a valid excuse, but being the sole provider in my own family limits my time.)
Now, are we done comparing things?
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:07 pm
So you write checks. I sure that eases your conscience a little. You pay for someone else to “carry water”.
You are a lot of things, but “Advocate” isn’t one of them.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Hey Anon, even obrien hasn’t (at least as far as he’s stated) spent volunteer time preparing packages or cards for troops he has said hes given money, and even more than that he has served which is something to be commended. He has done his share more than most so maybe you should cut him some slack. You can disagree with his views on the draft, but don’t insulting him for not doing as much for the troops as others is uncalled for. He was a soldier and he does what his time allows, that deserves respect.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:58 pm
sorry that may be a little hard to follow with the typos
June 3rd, 2006 at 8:55 am
11Bravo,
I would have cut Mr. O’Brien some slack, except that HE made a point of “shared sacrifice”-
“If people in this country shared sacrifice even something close to equal, we would not be in Iraq in the first place.”
I have seen the check writers. They write their checks and think the problem is solved. Write the check and theyhave supported the troops. Write the check and, to them, the hurricane is over. Come back a week or two later and ask for help packing boxes for soldier or doing something for the soldiers families. Ask them to assist after Katrina rebuilding houses or removing debris. You get the same response - didn’t we do that already? Wasn’t that last weeks news? The wars and disasters last more than a few weeks.
These things take more than money, they take people power - elbow grease. It involves folks getting up out of their Barcolounger and DOING.
I do not demean Mr. O’Brien’s service to his country, but he is advocating a radical idea (the draft) for the singular purpose of creating a “shared sacrifice” in this country. He says, “ALL Americans should be putting something forth in this effort, and slapping a damned magnet on a SUV doesn’t cut it.” when basically, that is exactly what he has done.
Every American needs to look in the mirror and ask the question, “What can I do to make my country and world a little better?” This goes to supporting the troops, changing the government (at least voting), helping the less fortunate, or deterring crime. It all starts with that face in the mirror and it doesn’t always involve money.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:38 pm
“Every American needs to look in the mirror and ask the question, What can I do to make my country and world a little better?”
Obrien already asnwered that question, he raised his right hand and took the same oath I took. He doesn’t need to write checks (although he does anyway) or make care packages to do the right thing, because he already has he served. That in and of itself means more than sending something to a soldier. Just because he disagree’s with your point of view (and mine) doesn’t give anyone the right to disrespect the commitment he made to this country just because right now he’s not doing as much for the troops as you would like.
June 4th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Anon E Mouse,
I’m not going to enter into your little game of comparison anymore. It’s pointless. I know what I’ve done, continue do (which is more than just write a check) and am satisfied with my own role in all of this.
The way I now see it, money I donate is the fruit of my labor, so it is more than just a “check”.
And it is obvious you are demeaning my past - back when younger, I invested a portion of my youth in service to this country and now you make judgements on it when I have not compared your “reading” or a few hours here and there.
Yes, it may be a radical idea to want to bring back the draft, however, something needs to be done when our political leaders do not do their jobs. They have become so far removed from the people in this country, something needs to change. For example, one congresswoman recently stated that she can’t afford to send her son to college on her $160,000 plus wage. How much more of a disconnect from the people is that?
The civilian leadership has misused the American Military in Iraq and if you want another source to consult the book COBRA II. (Heck, I did not this, but before the start of the Iraq War, even Tommy Franks wanted more troops but was pressured by Rumsfeld to use a much smaller number.)
June 4th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
Mr. O’Brien,
I have never demeaned your time spent in the military.
My point is that this country lacks leadership from the grassroots level, not just congress. You state:
“Yes, it may be a radical idea to want to bring back the draft, however, something needs to be done when our political leaders do not do their jobs.”
We get what we deserve. The citizens of this fine country haven’t done their jobs, either. Just getting folks to vote is hard.
We don’t need radical new ideas. What we need is for the citizenry to participate and participate on a continual basis. The need for leadership and participation doesn’t end when one job is done. There is always more to do. That is part of the price of freedom.