Haitian proverb: Woch nan do pa konen doule woch nan soley. (The rock in the water does not know the pain of the rock in the sun.)
Dear PeoProud, Knight in Dragonland, and Eyebrows Mcgee,
Your comments the last couple of days after “Kidnapped†attempt to detract from the main issue which is clearly patient abandonment at OSF. Even though your comments are anonymous, they reveal a significant amount.
I would like to respond to some of your ideas regarding this important topic.
Peo Proud, I don’t think you do understand the “Catholic charity and mission issue†at OSF or you wouldn’t be asking the questions that you are. Haitian Hearts does work with many hospitals around the country. Please understand that Peoria’s physicians and nurses understand the Haitian children’s hearts better than any other health care providers in the country. They would love to see these kids return to Peoria. Not only is it the correct moral and ethical decision to make, it is the best medical decision to make for the kids.
Peo Proud, if you had open heart surgery done in Peoria, really trusted your cardiologist and surgeon, and needed repeat surgery, would you want to be told to go to Medical Center X somewhere, work with a new set of physicians, and let them split your chest open? And what if you could pay for your surgery, and your physicians wanted to take care of you, and your family wanted to take care of you, and OSF’s lawyer told you that OSF would not accept you, how would you feel? Would that make you happy?
Now, Knight. Do you mind if I call you Doctor Knight?
Dr. Knight, I don’t blame you for remaining anonymous. You should stay anonymous in Peoria if you know what is good for you. But don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back as a “bleeding heartâ€. You still have a ways to go.
Dr. Knight, you comment, “The simple answer is that money should go where the need is greatest and where it can benefit the most peopleâ€. Do you really believe what you are writing?
Let’s say, for example, you go to your office tomorrow and it is chucked full of people, like Eyebrows Mcgee, suffering the heartbreak of sinusitis, viral tonsillitis, bronchitis, Type II diabetes secondary to morbid obesity, and end stage emphysema thanks to too many Lucky Strikes. As you know, most of these illnesses don’t need to be treated or could have been prevented.
So, Dr. Knight, according to you, it sounds like you will announce to your full waiting room that everyone should go home and take an aspirin because “…money should go where the need is greatest.†Many of your patients obviously don’t meet your criteria. I don’t think Eyebrows, and other folks like Eyebrows, would be happy with you and you wouldn’t make a nice living if you did that.
The bottom line is that you are going to treat everyone that shows up that day with advice, medication or whatever. You are going to do your best. However, if health care dollars were allocated with the criteria as you suggest, you wouldn’t be treating many people in central Illinois.
Dr. Knight, if a Haitian Hearts child showed up in your waiting room, I bet you would treat him or her with their congenital heart disease. I doubt you would refuse them care like OSF does.
The fun part about working in Haiti is that I get to treat malaria, tuberculosis, typhoid, pneumonia and meningitis every day. These illnesses cost pennies to treat. But I just can’t make the leap in logic that just because a Haitian child has a hole in their heart, they are “too expensive to treat”. When is a person “too expensive to treatâ€? When is a child anywhere “too expensive to treatâ€? I don’t buy that at all. And neither does the any child’s mother. Know what I mean?
Eyebrows, you commented that people have “politely†asked me questions in their comments. When you called me an “assâ€, is that your way of being polite? You also talked about hospital administrators and St. Thomas Aquinas in adjacent sentences regarding allocation of the health care dollar. That made me a little nervous too.
Eyebrows, you state that “in the real world in which we live and function, resources are limited.†I ask you for whom are they limited? For you in Peoria or the people here in Haiti? That is the scary part of this concept for people like you. The resources exist, we just don’t use them equitably.
You have used the mesmerizing lexicon of “limited health care resourcesâ€. Also, you must know that less than 10% of the world’s health research budget is spent on combating conditions that account for 90% of the global burden of disease like malaria, tuberculosis, and AIDS which scourge Haiti too. Does this seem like a good thing to you?
Eyebrows, you pit the poor against the poor by asking, “Should OSF turn its limited charitable time and dollars to Peorians who can’t afford their heart surgeries, or to Haitians?â€
Please don’t call me an “ass†again, but my answer to your question is “yesâ€. Both groups of people should get their heart surgery.
The Millennium Development Goals, set by the United Nations Millennium Summit in 2000, is a set of goals to be accomplished by the year 2015. The goals include:
1. Reducing by half the proportion of the world’s population living in extreme poverty (< 1 dollar US/day).
2. Reducing by two-thirds the mortality rate among children less than five years of age. Haiti has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world.
3. Reducing by three-quarters the maternal mortality rate. Again, Haiti leads the list here also.
The additional amount needed each year to meet the goals is 48 billion dollars for 2006 and 74 billion dollars by 2015.
Some really smart economists and philosophers (who I am basically plagiarizing right now) did a study and looked at America’s elite rich and super rich people. The statistics provided by these people state that if the top 10% of American families could donate a total of 404 billion dollars without imposing “significant hardship†on anyone. And if we proceeded down the economic scale in the US, more money could be raised without causing hardship. Obviously, the rich in other developed nations could share the burden of relieving global poverty. And this year we spent $120 billion dollars on the war in Iraq.
Before long we could be talking about real money. These funds could pay for a few Haitian kids’ surgeries as well and treat a few zillion cases of malaria and tuberculosis that prey on the majority of the world.
The funds exist to treat “cheap” diseases and “expensive” diseases. Anywhere. We just need to offer the sick poor the same options we have.
Eyebrows, just curious: Do you have any relationship with Hinshaw Culbertson, OSF’s law team, that may influence your comments regarding caring for Haitian children in Peoria?
Have a Merry Christmas.
John
Billy Dennis is a former reporter and editor at small daily and weekly newspapers in Illinois and Missouri. He comments on media, news and politics. He also owns and operates 
Dr. Carroll,
I salute you for the work that you do in Haiti. I fervently hope that the children helped by Haitian Hearts get the surgeries that they need … at OSF or elsewhere.
I am not an “OSF apologist” … I don’t know the details of your firing other than what you have posted on your site, and frankly that’s biased and only gives one side of the story. I do know that its next to impossible to fire a doctor without significant cause, so your story that it was simply because you rocked the boat does not ring true with me.
The purpose of my comment to your last post was to point out that Makhno and Ms. McGee had valid arguments regarding the distribution of healthcare resources, and your arrogant dismissal of their viewpoints was inappropriate … and frankly stupid. When you’re doing charity work, you want to invite charitable donations. You’re free to disagree and make your own arguments, but you don’t insult people. Your attitude is a detriment to your cause.
I’m not a psychiatrist, but let me do a little diagnosis here. This case seems quite straightforward to me. Let’s check off the criteria …
1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance
is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3) believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by other special people
4) requires excessive admiration
5) strong sense of entitlement
6) takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7) lacks empathy
9) arrogant affect
Let’s see, Dr. Carroll … you meet criteria 1, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 9. One could argue either way about #7 … but I would say you have certainly shown a lack of empathy through your comments on this blog. I don’t know about 2 and 6, but only 5 out of 9 criteria need to be met to make the diagnosis. Since Dr. Carroll has been fired from OSF, he obviously meets the omnipresent qualification for psychiatric disorders that they interfere negatively with one’s life goals, either personal or professional.
What’s the diagnosis?
Narcissistic personality disorder.
Dr. Carroll:
1. Eyebrows is not anonymous. She outed herself some months back. Her name is Laura Petelle and she’s a private practice attorney.
2. Don’t argue with Knight. He’s always right and is an accomplished projectionist i.e. his diagnosis.
3. I agree that we need to take care of our own first but I will not take issue with your efforts or your fight with OSF.
Uh … I’m most definitely not anonymous. I’m Peoria attorney Laura Petelle. You can find it on my website quite easily. Billy usually uses my real name to refer to me on this website. I have a BA in theology and political science from the University of Notre Dame, a Masters in Theological Studies from Duke Divinity, and a Juris Doctor from Duke Law. I am teaching business ethics at ICC as an adjunt professor in the spring. So pardon me if I’m not cowed by your generalizations, dodgings, misuse of moral reasoning, and insistence that everyone who disagrees with you must be wrong. Louder men than you have tried to cow me with little success.
“Eyebrows, you commented that people have “politely†asked me questions in their comments. When you called me an “assâ€,”
Yes, PEOPLE asked you polite questions, people like Makhno. *I* called you an ass. I didn’t SAY I was being polite. (Actually, I said the way you were acting, I couldn’t help thinking you were an ass. It’s a fine distinction, I know, but I was trying to point out that your actions were making you appear like an ass, something I assume you don’t want, not that you were an ontological ass.)
“You also talked about hospital administrators and St. Thomas Aquinas in adjacent sentences regarding allocation of the health care dollar. That made me a little nervous too.”
In what way? Are you unfamiliar with Catholic theology?
“Eyebrows, you state that “in the real world in which we live and function, resources are limited.†I ask you for whom are they limited? For you in Peoria or the people here in Haiti? That is the scary part of this concept for people like you. The resources exist, we just don’t use them equitably.”
This is either rhetoric, or it shows you’re living in an alarming fantasy world, Dr. Carroll. What you have been asked, repeatedly, is WHY HAITI? WHY THESE PEOPLE? Why not the starving in North Korea? Why not the downtrodden in Bolivia? Why not Peorians lacking adequate health care?
OSF has limited resources. OSF does not have the money, manpower, or physical plant to provide health care for every person in the world. They don’t have enough to provide for every person in Illinois, or every person in the tri-county area.
Now, you say that OSF should use some of those limited resources to treat patients in Haiti. That’s fine. I’ve been involved with charitable work in Haiti since my college days. I know what it’s like there. What you HAVEN’T said is WHY you think Haiti deserves OSF’s scarce resources. What makes it supersede other demands on OSF’s resources? Why is only OSF available?
Unless you truly think that OSF is hiding a magical Star Trek replicator deep in its bowels and truly does have limitless resources and any allocations it makes because of scarcity are just them being vicious and greedy.
“Does this seem like a good thing to you?”
I did not say — if you read my post and responded to its entirety instead of picking and choosing specific points out of context — that it was a good thing. I said it was a BAD thing. Frankly, the fact that cats and dogs have access to MRIs when people who need them don’t is a scandal that cries out to the heavens. But I’m not in charge of the entire world. Nor do I have the power to change the entire world.
Philanthropists and aid workers who actually change the world are the ones who are aware of the issue of “scarce resources available to me in this time and place” and WORK WITH THAT REALITY instead of somehow insisting that one hospital in the middle of Central Illinois has the ability to erase all of the world’s health care inequalities.
Instead of continually insisting that the children in Haiti deserve treatment (they obviously do) and that health care dollars are distributed wildly inequitable (they obviously are), why do you keep failing to answer the original questions — why these children? Why not other sick children? Why this hospital? Why not another hospital? Given the literally hundreds of demands on my personal charitable dollar, WHAT MAKES THIS PROGRAM so compelling that I would take my dollar away from homeless children in Peoria or women in Afghanistan trying to rebuild their lives in the post-Taliban era?
“Eyebrows, you pit the poor against the poor by asking, “Should OSF turn its limited charitable time and dollars to Peorians who can’t afford their heart surgeries, or to Haitians?†Please don’t call me an “ass†again, but my answer to your question is “yesâ€. Both groups of people should get their heart surgery.”
I’m not pitting the poor against the poor, except insofar as it makes a terribly convenient catch phrase for you when anyone disagrees with you. Obviously both groups of people “should” get their surgery. But we are not living in a morally perfect world. We are living in a world where moral people must make decisions about limited resources available, and it’s irresponsible not to. If OSF only has the resources to treat EITHER local patients (let’s say) OR Haitian children, which group should they treat? Why?
Nobody disagrees with you that we all want to live in a just and moral world where everyone has access to basic necessities. The rest of us just recognize that this world? Isn’t that. And people involved in charitable world — particularly as charitable dollars available are contracting due to government spending cuts and a slowing economy — have to make choices.
So I return to Makhno’s original question, which you still haven’t bothered to answer: What makes these select few Haitian children so compelling that they should get the treatment they need when other children in Haiti suffer?
And here’s my question: Do you really think that your approach of attacking charitable institutions, belittling people who don’t even disagree with you but ASK YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROGRAM, and going on a personal crusade against a “medical mafia” in Peoria is in any way going to assist in getting these children — and ALL children in Haiti — the care they need? What I see is that you’re working very hard to alienate your potential support base of individuals and you’ve already alienated OSF. If *I* were you, I would have been out beating the streets, raising awareness in a positive way, and raising money so that there WASN’T a scarceness issue, so that all Haitian children could get, say, childhood vaccines while the heart patients also got their surgeries. I’m interested as to why you’ve chosen a crusade of hate and anger to support a charitable project. Interesting strategy.
By the way? You can keep avoiding the questions with rhetoric about the world having enough resources for all of us to live in happiness and harmony like a giant Coca-Cola commercial, and you can keep dishonestly implying that I disagree with you on the points that all people deserve medical treatment or that medical dollars are inequitably distributed in an attempt to distract people by attacking me and setting up your opponents as straw men you can easily knock down, but I do go to court. I know what avoiding the questions looks like. I know what evasion, straw men, ad hominem attacks, and word-twisting look like. I’ll just keep asking the same one over and over until I get an answer. I’m patient.
And here I shall put my money where my mouth is, just to give you an incentive to answer an actual question instead of attacking people who disagree with you.
I have taken $20 out of my budget, above and beyond my normal charitable contributions. It’s a tight budget because I have large student loans and we’re just starting out, but I’ve found $20. So tell me, Dr. Carroll, where my $20 should go. I only have $20 to donate. It’s a limited resource. Should it go to my parish? Habitat for Humanity? The Heifer Foundation? They all do good work I’m quite familiar with.
Or should it go to your program, or a similar program in Haiti? Convince me. Convince me without using the talking points a) OSF is evil; b) everyone deserves health care (duh); or c) there’s no scarcity, just unequal distribution. These aren’t REASONS, they’re rhetoric. What makes your program so important? What makes it superior to other programs doing similar work? In what way does this make Haiti a better place? How much of my dollar goes directly to the charitable mission, how much to administrative costs? Do the leaders of this program comport themselves in a professional manner? Can they be trusted? What will the long-term benefit be from my $20?
Answer the actual questions. Convince me. Give positive reasons (not OSF is evil) and practical reasons (not rhetoric about equality and scarcity), and you can have my $20.
By the way:
“Eyebrows Mcgee, suffering the heartbreak of sinusitis, viral tonsillitis, bronchitis, Type II diabetes secondary to morbid obesity, and end stage emphysema thanks to too many Lucky Strikes.”
is also a little uncalled for nastiness. Eyebrows McGee may be prone to sinusitis and had bronchitis once or twice, but she is definitely not morbidly obese, she is not diabetic, and she has never smoked. But thanks for painting such a charming picture of me.
Vonster,
You are right. I won’t argue with Dr. Knight again. His diagnostic acumen is amazing.
I wonder how much I owe him?
John
Dr. CarrollI dont think the main page of Peoria Pundit is the place to be calling out other bloggers, if your blog doesn’t give you the audience to voice your issues with OSF than maybe it means no one wants to listen to you OR that you aren’t doing a very good job of getting the word out. Either way I think that periodically hijacking this blog for your own purposes is getting a bit old as it seems that few are actually supportive of your fight against OSF. The work you do for haitian children is a worthwile cause I am sure and this post isn’t meant to detract from those efforts.
Dear Bravo,
Ok, thanks.
However, another way to look at it is that the vast majority of people who are supportive of Haitian kids obtaining the same medical care as our kids, frequently don’t have access to computers and have never heard of a “blog”.
Know what I mean?
John
Ahhh, the neverending snark from dear old Vonster. When’s the the last time we heard a “mea culpa” out of you when proven wrong, Mr. Pot? Ohhhh yeah … NEVER.
Dr. Carroll … no charge, not that you’ll pay any attention to advice. Patients with NPD never do.
FYI … 90% of my patients are public aid. Thanks for asking!
That figures.
2 doctors having a pissing match….FIGHT! FIGHT!
I think what you’re missing in all of this John is that IT’S OVER! It’s ben over for several years now. You can keep with the “Peoria Medical Nazis” stuff ’till the Hatian cows come home, but it’s still OVER. Perhaps it’s time to move on?
Dear Woodford Pundit,
You spelled “Haitian” wrong.
John
Or maybe it was just a simple typo, Dr. Carroll … all WP had to do was miss hitting a single “i” key.
Thanks for proving yet again Laura’s point that you evade criticism regarding the CONTENT of your arguments by making ad hominem attacks on your critic.
It is quite evident what Dr. Carroll’s credibility is when he refuses to reply to Ms. Petelle’s (and Mahkno’s) questions. Instead, he resorts to correcting a spelling mistake that I am sure even HE has made before. I think we all know what that means.
I have only one thing to add to this. Regarding the distribution of resources: Dr. Carroll is by trade a doctor, an emergency physician at that. One of the most basic tenents of emergency care care, whether in the hospital or pre-hospital setting, is to triage your patients. In triage, you group your patitients in categories based on their injuries. You begin treating the group that is next to worst. Why? Because you must do the most good, and treating the worst cases will take more time and resources away from the others. By starting with the next to worst you can do more good.
It seems that Dr. Carroll has forgotten this most basic principle.
Either that, or KID has it right.
Dear Eyebrows McGee
I don’t agree with your assumption that there is not enough to go around so that everyone’s basic needs are met. Here’s some info from an article in the September 2003 issue of Pediatrics entitled: “Inequity in Child Health as a Global Issueâ€.
“Half of the world’s population, 3 billion people, lives on less than US $1.30 per day. The world’s 225 richest people have a combined wealth equivalent to the annual income of the poorest 2.5 billion people, nearly half of the world’s population.â€
Included is a table that lists The World’s Priorities (Annual Expenditures). We spend $6 billion per year for basic education for all but spend $8 billion per year for cosmetics in the US. We spend $9 billion per year for water and sanitation for all but spend $11 billion per year for ice cream in Europe and $12 billion for perfumes in Europe and the US. We spend $13 billion per year for basic health and nutrition for all but spend $17 billion for pet foods in Europe and the US.
So the resources are there. I think some of the challenges are getting people: to acknowledge and care about the problem of poverty; realize that the resources do exist, and (the hardest part), to make personal sacrifices to alleviate the poverty.
As you pointed out, each individual’s resources are limited. I think all of the examples you listed are worthy causes. I think people who want to make contributions make decisions based on their experiences and knowledge. I don’t think there are right or wrong answers here. Some considerations people take into account are: severity of suffering, how well their money will be used, proximity of the cause.
I will make a case for Haitian Hearts, but I don’t want to do this by denigrating other causes.
First of all, why Haiti? Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, 600 miles from Florida. If you read the history, an arguable conclusion is that the United States contributed to this distinction, from not recognizing Haiti when it was founded to “escorting†President Aristide out of the country a couple of years ago with a lot of not-so-nice stuff in between. So severity of the poverty, proximity to the U.S., and past crimes by the U.S. are three reasons that I think Haiti is a worthy place for you to focus your charity dollars.
Why children with heart problems? John has been going to Haiti for more than 25 years. Haitian Hearts grew out of his general medical work there. He kept coming across children who either had congenital heart problems or rheumatic heart disease. In 1995, he brought his first patient to Peoria. Many medical centers around the country, including OSF, have international programs, so the infrastructure, so to speak, exists to help these children. BTW, when HH was based at OSF it wasn’t an entirely charity endeavor. HH volunteers raised more than $1 million, which went directly to the Children’s Hospital of Illinois to offset medical costs.
The biggest reason to contribute to HH is to save the life of the child. I have to speak more from the heart now, but hopefully we make decisions with our brains and our hearts. There is something so cool about seeing a child who couldn’t walk or play, who was gasping for breath get up after recovering from surgery and get to be a kid and get to have a future. There is something so cool about bringing hi tech, cardiac surgery to a poor Haitian child. I was privileged to witness one of these open heart surgeries and it is an absolute miracle that doctors can cut open a person’s chest, hook them up to a bypass machine, stop the heart, fix the problem, and restart the heart. It is practically routine now in the U.S., but I tell you, it’s a miracle. I think it’s reasonable to suggest that U.S. medical centers share some of this technology and expertise with children from Third World countries.
One of the questions you asked was something along the lines of, “Why should I help Haitians whom I don’t know?†This is where John and I and others involved in HH have an advantage: we do know these Haitians and their families. And this also is one of the benefits of the program. HH introduces these children to communities around the country. When these children are here, they personalize the developing world and all of its problems; it’s not some abstraction anymore. I believe that hosting and getting to know these children has been a life changing experience for people. Many of our HH host families continue to have relationships with these children and their families and also are involved in Haiti in other ways. There’s no denying that if you have an emotional attachment to a person, you’re more likely to want to help them. We help our own children first, then our neighbor’s children, etc. Bill Gates has said that if the children from the developing world lived next door to us, we would not allow them to suffer the way they do. Well, for a few months, these children do live next door to Americans.
As far as John’s credibility, I can tell you (and other people who know him can vouch for it), he lives a very frugal life, by any American standards, much less by the standards most doctors live. This doesn’t seem to be a big sacrifice for him, and it has allowed him to dedicate thousands and thousands of his own dollars to HH. He has paid for many of the children’s plane tickets and also even a couple of surgeries. It has also allowed him to spend months each year working in Haiti. John takes no salary from HH. So, the founder of the program is fiscally conservative and is very concerned with how HH funds are spent.
There is mercy work and there is justice work. Mercy work responds to an immediate need, while justice work corrects the situation that leads to the problem. Digging wells to provide clean water so that children don’t get typhoid and other diseases is justice work. Providing them with heart surgery is mercy work. Both kinds of work are important. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like there is an implication that it’s somehow wrong or irresponsible for a child in Haiti to have heart surgery when so many other children suffer from more easily treatable diseases. But perhaps it’s wrong or irresponsible for a person to buy a $30,000 vehicle when a $15,000 one will do just as well. The extra $15,000 could then be spent on either wells or heart surgery. I am probably not making this argument very eloquently, so I would recommend the book “Mountains Beyond Mountainsâ€, by Tracy Kidder, a biography of Dr. Paul Farmer, a physician who works in Haiti, Rwanda, Peru, and the prisons of Russia. He is someone who has changed reality by helping to drive down the price of HIV-AIDS meds. Towards the end of the book, some of his associates fly a Haitian child who is sick with cancer to Boston for treatment. Dr. Farmer has interesting things to say about this case that apply to HH.
Coincidentally, as I type these words on the evening of 12/21, Maxime Petion, a HH patient, is flying to Cleveland where he will be assessed for surgery. We are grateful to Cleveland Clinic for accepting Maxime. John and I both have blogs that focus on Haiti: John’s is dyinginhaiti@blogspot.com and mine is livefromhaiti@blogspot.com. You might find it interesting to check out them out. Besides being a great physician, John also takes great pictures, and those accompany our oh-so-incisive posts.
I hope based on the foregoing that you might consider giving some of your $20 to Haitian Hearts.
First off, I have been known to attempt humor on this board, with occassional success. This is not one of those times. Please take the observations and conclusions seriously.
I have been reading Dr. Carroll’s writings here, recently. I found them to be familiar. Not the words themselves – I do not feel he is plagarizing. Certainly not the target of his writings – I have never read anything so negative abotu his target from any other source.
Still, there was the nagging feeling that I had heard this tone before. The feeling generated was familiar. The personality projected was familiar. I kept saying, “this rings a bell.” Eventually I found something similar.
I provide you with the following link.
http://employees.oneonta.edu/downinll/mass_suicide.htm
I may be all wet on this one. Does anyone else see it?
Oh good grief his wife responds to Eyebrows instead of him.
Nice.
I also spelled “been” wrong as “ben”. I could claim that it is because I’m busy, but it’s just lack of checking over before hitting the button. Oh, no, wait, I GET it . . . it’s because I’m STUPID, right? Because we have differing views, I must be unable to spell. See how dense I am? I didn’t get that right away.
Tony,
Were you able to follow my wife’s reasoning? Did it make any sense to you?
John
Dear Eyebrows McGee/Laura,
Just so we stay focused, this started out as a discussion regarding abandonment of Haitian children needing heart surgery at OSF. I like to put this at the top, because we can all be mislead so easily.
Well, Eyebrows McGee/Laura, as you have clearly documented, you sure have the degrees. Wow.
I know you wouldn’t put any words in my mouth, but please let me point out a “fine distinctionâ€, using your terminology when you called me an “assâ€. In no way was I implying that you, Eyebrows McGee/Laura, have diabetes secondary to obesity or emphysema from cigarette smoking. I did think that you had occasional bouts of sinus and bronchitis based on some incredibly interesting posts you have written in the past about your maladies. I was sure you would not be a smoker.
Eyebrows McGee/Laura, you sure do ask a lot of questions. And like a good lawyer, you tell me how I can and can’t answer them. You even advise me not to use certain words to get your donation of $20 for Haitian Hearts. That’s not much fun. Plus, the other bloggers keep ganging up on me, which hurts my feelings…
By the way, you never answered MY question regarding whether you have a connection with OSF’s law team. Come on. Full disclosure is important.
Your comment about vaccinations for all of Haiti’s kids is good. There are an estimated 3.5 million kids under 14 years of age here. That will take some planning…
Many of your questions regarding Haitian Hearts have been answered and a good additional source for you would be the 120 Haitian families and about 100 US families that have been involved with the Haitian Hearts patients for the past 11 years. I would advise you to talk to doctors, nurses, residents, and medical students that have had the opportunity to take care of these kids also.
Eyebrows McGee/Laura, I just don’t think that we can convince you regarding this topic. If we haven’t by now, I don’t think we are going to.
But let me try.
Your $20. How should you donate it? Let me take you from your safe academic ivory tower and tell you what to do. Sometimes people just like to be told what to do.
I am following a little girl here in Haiti who is four years old. Her name is Fredline. She has congenital heart disease. Her mother really loves her. Both Fredline and her mother have their Haitian passports.
A well known pediatric heart center in the States will operate her for 10,000 dollars. Haitian Hearts will obtain their visas here in Haiti, will fly Fredline and her mom for $1,500 to the States, find and pay for their food and lodging, and pay $5,000 for her surgery. We will then fly Fredline and her mom back to Haiti and provide her with postop meds if necessary.
Eyebrows McGee/Laura, would you take your $20 dollars and go to Goodwill (the second hand store) in Peoria and buy her gloves, a hat, a coat, and scarf? It will be cold when she gets off the plane. Then, please go to your local parish and ask the pastor to put in the bulletin that you, Eyebrows McGee/Laura are collecting $5,000 for this little girl. I am sure you could get what we need after Mass any Sunday morning, especially around Christmas.
Guess what? Instead of her life being over in her teenage years, she will have an unlimited life expectancy. This will be good for her and her family and her country. Haiti needs more healthy four year old girls so they can turn into smart productive people and turn Haiti around.
That is what I want you to do with your $20 dollars. I know it is scary, but go for it. If everyone in your parish kicked in, so much could be done. Many hands lighten the load.
Let me know if you want her picture. I’ll send it to you.
John
Your wife’s reasoning has nothing to do with it. It is just more of the same: You dismissing people who disagree with you. It’s really very sad.
Maria: “This is where John and I and others involved in HH have an advantage: we do know these Haitians and their families.”
As far as I can tell, this seems to be the central point of your argument — it’s a good program because you’re involved in it and you know it’s a good program. While I’m sure it is a good program, this isn’t a persuasive argument: How is this relevant to ME giving to Haitian hearts? I know people who know people in Russia, Bolivia, North Korea — why should you knowing people in Haiti make it a particularly persuasive argument?
But thank you for answering my questions politely and sincerely, without hatred or belittling. I appreciate it.
John: “By the way, you never answered MY question regarding whether you have a connection with OSF’s law team. Come on. Full disclosure is important.”
I didn’t see the question. But I do not. And if I did, client confidentiality would restrict me from responding to you in this forum. I don’t appreciate the implications that I’m unethical either through lack of full disclosure or through failure to maintain attorney-client privilege.
“Many of your questions regarding Haitian Hearts have been answered … I would advise you to talk to doctors, nurses, residents, and medical students that have had the opportunity to take care of these kids also.”
I’m not asking them. I’m asking you. You’re the one insisting it’s a good program. You need to tell me why. It’s very easy to say “These questions have already been asked, and answered elsewhere. You should go do a great deal of research and find out, because I can’t be bothered to tell you.” You still haven’t answered where my $20 will go, how it will be overseen, whether the people who run the program are trustworthy, whether the program is held to ethical standards
“I just don’t think that we can convince you regarding this topic. If we haven’t by now, I don’t think we are going to.”
I don’t think you’ve bothered to try. Have you been rated by Charity Navigator? Are your tax filings open for public viewing? Why is this program more important and more effective than other programs? Why this part of the world and not other parts of the world? I’m asking very specific questions, and I narrowed down the ways you could respond — “And like a good lawyer, you tell me how I can and can’t answer them.” — because you seem incapable of answering simple, straight-ahead questions with simple, straight-ahead answers. You have still failed to do so here. You have fallen back on rhetoric and failed to answer my questions about the trustworthiness and impact of your charity.
PS — “Let me take you from your safe academic ivory tower and tell you what to do.”
I don’t live in one, but way to keep going on the condescending, ad hominem attacks. It’s particularly disingenuous coming from another person with a professional degree. Accusing people who ask you questions of being in an ivory tower is YET ANOTHER convenient way to belittle people who question you and avoid answering.
It’s not that I even DISAGREE with you. I just have some questions about the program. Questions you apparently cannot or will not answer.
Eyebrows, in fairness to Maria, she did say, “So severity of the poverty, proximity to the U.S., and past crimes by the U.S. are three reasons that I think Haiti is a worthy place for you to focus your charity dollars.” I don’t think the crux of her argument was only her personal involvement; this appears to be a large part of it as well.
Dear Anonymous Tony,
Your comments the last couple of days keep talking about how “sad” things are. I am sure Knight in Dragonland, our anonymous physician friend, could provide you with some happy pills if you become desperate.
Come on, Anonymous Tony, it is CHRISTMAS. Be happy!
John
Dr. John A. Carroll, I am not quite sure why you continue to badger the OSFians, I would think that by now you have realized that you both should part ways, and move on. Yeah, there were things that people did to you to piss you off, and I’m sure that there were things that you did in return. However, posting mile and half long blogs about boo hoo me is not the way to do it. Go out and work to get another sponsor for the Haitian children. Don’t get negative everytime someone disagrees with you. Use a positive approach, being a bridge burner gets around. I myself would love to give money, but in the unfortunate chance that we should not agree on a subject, I would not want you to go rampid on what a bad person I am and so forth. (Besides anyone who knows me knows the truth anyway)