Comments on: Politics: And thus, my flirtation with Ron Paul comes to an end http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/ Media and news from the original river city Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:15:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Politics: A message to Ron Paul supporters http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-101866 Politics: A message to Ron Paul supporters Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:02:46 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-101866 [...] written about Paul’s admitted love for the Confederacy (the belief that Lincoln was a tyrant and that the North should have just bought the slaves their [...] [...] written about Paul’s admitted love for the Confederacy (the belief that Lincoln was a tyrant and that the North should have just bought the slaves their [...]

]]> By: Marie http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-101033 Marie Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:07:58 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-101033 Real National Universal Healthcare, Free College Education, Diplomacy and Peace, Marriage Equality, Fair Trade, Better Wages, Civil LIberties, An End to the War in Iraq, Straight Talk on the Issues...........a vote you can be proud of......... There is an alternative. His name is Dennis Kucinich. He really cares about our country and has intelligent progressive ideas. Find out more about Dennis on more than 10 key issues at www.dennis4president.com now. Real National Universal Healthcare, Free College Education, Diplomacy and Peace, Marriage Equality, Fair Trade, Better Wages, Civil LIberties, An End to the War in Iraq, Straight Talk on the Issues………..a vote you can be proud of………

There is an alternative. His name is Dennis Kucinich. He really cares about our country and has intelligent progressive ideas.

Find out more about Dennis on more than 10 key issues at http://www.dennis4president.com now.

]]> By: Mike http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-100995 Mike Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:47:09 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-100995 Mike sez: “Lincoln said, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” ” I sez: Thank you for proving my point. The Union could not be saved without the abolition of slavery. Every other issue was negotiable with the South. ... What it proves is that the slavery issue was a means to an end (ie, solidifying the Union). It wasn't the "only issue worth dying for." And maybe it was possible to save the Union without pure abolition -- again, purchasing the slaves like Britain did could have staved off the war. Thomas Jefferson should have taken his own advice. He fought for freedom for all men, as long as they were wealthy and white. What he did to another near-great sitting President (John Adams) was near inexcusable - especially since they considered themselves ‘close friends’. ... True, but for the 18th century he was a true progressive, championing freedom of religion and speech and of assembly. And he authored the Declaration of Independence. John Adams was a would-be autocrat, with his Alien and Sedition Acts outlawing criticism of himself. Even Bush with all he's done wouldn't dare go that far. Besides, they were political enemies, as in those days the President and VP were not necessarily from the same party. Thanks to Mr. Taft and his foreign policy, we were left with a mess in Central and South American that continues to this day. It might be possible to argue that Reagan’s greatest toe stub was almost directly attributable to Taft foreign policy. ... I agree that he should have never sent in troops into Nicaragua for financial interests. It's unfortunate that he succumbed to that temptation. Anyway I'm more a fan of Taft because of his role on the Court afterward. While there is much to like about Coolidge, he left office just before the beginning of the Great Depression. Perhaps the effects of the Depression would have not been so deep had the Coolidge administration been a little less ‘hands off’ with business, especially banks. ... That's possible. Maybe the boom of the 1920s wouldn't have been so great either. There's widespread disagreement on the what and when of the cause. I think it's more financial irresponsibility on the part of individuals that led to the Depression. Chicago and Austrian schools blame the Fed, for different reasons. Milton Friedman points to Fed actions after Coolidge left office. Lincoln faced the largest threat the United States had ever confronted, and that threat was from within. ... That's probably right. But the argument is that there may have been a less-costly means of confronting that threat. Maybe, maybe not. History is made for second-guessing and what-ifs. That's what makes it such an interesting academic exercise. Mike sez: “Lincoln said, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” ”
I sez: Thank you for proving my point. The Union could not be saved without the abolition of slavery. Every other issue was negotiable with the South.
…
What it proves is that the slavery issue was a means to an end (ie, solidifying the Union). It wasn’t the “only issue worth dying for.” And maybe it was possible to save the Union without pure abolition — again, purchasing the slaves like Britain did could have staved off the war.

Thomas Jefferson should have taken his own advice. He fought for freedom for all men, as long as they were wealthy and white. What he did to another near-great sitting President (John Adams) was near inexcusable – especially since they considered themselves ‘close friends’.
…
True, but for the 18th century he was a true progressive, championing freedom of religion and speech and of assembly. And he authored the Declaration of Independence. John Adams was a would-be autocrat, with his Alien and Sedition Acts outlawing criticism of himself. Even Bush with all he’s done wouldn’t dare go that far. Besides, they were political enemies, as in those days the President and VP were not necessarily from the same party.

Thanks to Mr. Taft and his foreign policy, we were left with a mess in Central and South American that continues to this day. It might be possible to argue that Reagan’s greatest toe stub was almost directly attributable to Taft foreign policy.
…
I agree that he should have never sent in troops into Nicaragua for financial interests. It’s unfortunate that he succumbed to that temptation. Anyway I’m more a fan of Taft because of his role on the Court afterward.

While there is much to like about Coolidge, he left office just before the beginning of the Great Depression. Perhaps the effects of the Depression would have not been so deep had the Coolidge administration been a little less ‘hands off’ with business, especially banks.
…
That’s possible. Maybe the boom of the 1920s wouldn’t have been so great either. There’s widespread disagreement on the what and when of the cause. I think it’s more financial irresponsibility on the part of individuals that led to the Depression. Chicago and Austrian schools blame the Fed, for different reasons. Milton Friedman points to Fed actions after Coolidge left office.

Lincoln faced the largest threat the United States had ever confronted, and that threat was from within.
…
That’s probably right. But the argument is that there may have been a less-costly means of confronting that threat. Maybe, maybe not. History is made for second-guessing and what-ifs. That’s what makes it such an interesting academic exercise.

]]> By: Anon E. Mouse http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-100985 Anon E. Mouse Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:06:56 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-100985 Brad, you are so very wrong. Brad, you are so very wrong.

]]> By: Anon E. Mouse http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-100984 Anon E. Mouse Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:06:13 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-100984 Mike sez: "Lincoln said, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it." " I sez: Thank you for proving my point. The Union could not be saved without the abolition of slavery. Every other issue was negotiable with the South. As for your picks for "Great Presidents": Thomas Jefferson should have taken his own advice. He fought for freedom for all men, as long as they were wealthy and white. What he did to another near-great sitting President (John Adams) was near inexcusable - especially since they considered themselves 'close friends'. Thanks to Mr. Taft and his foreign policy, we were left with a mess in Central and South American that continues to this day. It might be possible to argue that Reagan's greatest toe stub was almost directly attributable to Taft foreign policy. While there is much to like about Coolidge, he left office just before the beginning of the Great Depression. Perhaps the effects of the Depression would have not been so deep had the Coolidge administration been a little less 'hands off' with business, especially banks. It is very tough to argue against Ronald Reagan. He had a large hand in bringing about the end of the USSR. How much of that is attributable to the Soviet leadership (or lack thereof)? One wonders what life would have been like if he had been nominated four years earlier (and won the general election). He has my preliminary vote for greatness - but 20 years since his presidency is still too close to be able to judge it fairly. Lincoln faced the largest threat the United States had ever confronted, and that threat was from within. Mike sez: “Lincoln said, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” ”

I sez: Thank you for proving my point. The Union could not be saved without the abolition of slavery. Every other issue was negotiable with the South.

As for your picks for “Great Presidents”:
Thomas Jefferson should have taken his own advice. He fought for freedom for all men, as long as they were wealthy and white. What he did to another near-great sitting President (John Adams) was near inexcusable – especially since they considered themselves ‘close friends’.
Thanks to Mr. Taft and his foreign policy, we were left with a mess in Central and South American that continues to this day. It might be possible to argue that Reagan’s greatest toe stub was almost directly attributable to Taft foreign policy.
While there is much to like about Coolidge, he left office just before the beginning of the Great Depression. Perhaps the effects of the Depression would have not been so deep had the Coolidge administration been a little less ‘hands off’ with business, especially banks.
It is very tough to argue against Ronald Reagan. He had a large hand in bringing about the end of the USSR. How much of that is attributable to the Soviet leadership (or lack thereof)? One wonders what life would have been like if he had been nominated four years earlier (and won the general election). He has my preliminary vote for greatness – but 20 years since his presidency is still too close to be able to judge it fairly.
Lincoln faced the largest threat the United States had ever confronted, and that threat was from within.

]]> By: Mike http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-100977 Mike Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:22:30 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-100977 Lincoln put up with the agony and death caused by the Civil War because he felt it was God’s punishment to us for ever enslaving human beings. ... Oh please. Lincoln said, "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it." Sounds to me like this wasn't the "ONLY" issue for him. Saying that Lincoln fought the Civil War over slavery is like saying FDR fought WWII to close the concentration camps. It makes for a nice story and it would be nice if it were true but it's not the truth. And no, correcting people who say that doesn't make you a bigot. Really, this intolerance to opinion sounds distinctly Orwellian. I challenge all of you who choose to detract from his astonishingly great legacy to provide the name of the President who does live up to your definition of “great”. ... Thomas Jefferson, William Howard Taft, Calvin Coolidge, Ronald Reagan. Lincoln put up with the agony and death caused by the Civil War because he felt it was God’s punishment to us for ever enslaving human beings.
…
Oh please. Lincoln said, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” Sounds to me like this wasn’t the “ONLY” issue for him. Saying that Lincoln fought the Civil War over slavery is like saying FDR fought WWII to close the concentration camps. It makes for a nice story and it would be nice if it were true but it’s not the truth. And no, correcting people who say that doesn’t make you a bigot. Really, this intolerance to opinion sounds distinctly Orwellian.

I challenge all of you who choose to detract from his astonishingly great legacy to provide the name of the President who does live up to your definition of “great”.
…
Thomas Jefferson, William Howard Taft, Calvin Coolidge, Ronald Reagan.

]]> By: prego man http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/comment-page-1/#comment-100976 prego man Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:51:41 +0000 http://peoriapundit.com/blogpeoria/2007/12/25/politics-and-thus-my-flirtation-with-ron-paul-comes-to-an-end/#comment-100976 Slavery was not the "side issue" of the Civil War. It was the ONLY issue worth dying for; and so many did just that. If you think for a moment that the Civil War was started because of a mint julep recipe, guess again. If you want to paint it with a "State's Rights" crapola stick, keep trying with that, too. Lincoln put up with the agony and death caused by the Civil War because he felt it was God's punishment to us for ever enslaving human beings. Anyone who tries to put even a shred of reason to the southern states having the "right" to do whatever they wanted to (slavery), simply because they were "sovereign" states, ought to be strung up, have honey poured over 'em, and send a batch of hungry red ants aimed at your navel, and up your arse, as well. Shame on you, Brad. Do a little more in-depth research next time when you investigate the Civil War... don't just stop with Ron Paul's personal encyclopedia collection. Slavery was not the “side issue” of the Civil War. It was the ONLY issue worth dying for; and so many did just that. If you think for a moment that the Civil War was started because of a mint julep recipe, guess again. If you want to paint it with a “State’s Rights” crapola stick, keep trying with that, too. Lincoln put up with the agony and death caused by the Civil War because he felt it was God’s punishment to us for ever enslaving human beings.

Anyone who tries to put even a shred of reason to the southern states having the “right” to do whatever they wanted to (slavery), simply because they were “sovereign” states, ought to be strung up, have honey poured over ‘em, and send a batch of hungry red ants aimed at your navel, and up your arse, as well. Shame on you, Brad. Do a little more in-depth research next time when you investigate the Civil War… don’t just stop with Ron Paul’s personal encyclopedia collection.

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