Lest anyone think that only one of Aaron Schock’s potential opponents is opposed to torture, Carl Ray had an op-ed in today’s Journal Star. He made many good practical points, including that torture accomplished nothing and only strengthens our enemies resolve. But he made a moral point as well:
The only thing exceptional about our circumstances is our country, and that is because of the principles upon which it was founded, principles that make it a beacon to the world. It’s why I served, and why all of us love our country so.
These principles cannot be compromised; otherwise they are, by definition, no longer principles. Congressman Schock’s statements betray those principles and his own inexperience. We are better than this. We are Americans.
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Billy Dennis is a former reporter and editor at small daily and weekly newspapers in Illinois and Missouri. He comments on media, news and politics. He also owns and operates 
You people need to get your facts straight. No where in that interview did Schock say he supported torture. He said he supported alternative methods to torture when US lives were at stake. Look up the defination of “alternative” OK? and untangle your panties.
He said he supports “alternative torture methods” and not “alternative methods to torture”, you dumb ass.
Here’s the transcript from the show. Judge for yourselves:
MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL.
The Obama administration plans to move up to 100 Guantanamo detainees
those are terrorist detainees-to an Illinois prison.
Joining me right now two U.S. congressman from Illinois with very different views on that move, Republican Congressman Aaron Schock and Democratic Congressman Phil Hare.
Congressman Schock, why are you against this decision to put these people in this new federal facility in Illinois? These are people who will be-apparently will have been convicted by military tribunals.
REP. AARON SCHOCK ®, ILLINOIS: I don’t believe all of them have been on trial yet at this point.
And the reason I’m opposed, as well as a majority of Illinoisans and a majority of Americans at this point, is because the president has yet to convince us, has yet to lay out a plan as to why this makes America safer.
Moving Guantanamo Bay, changing addresses of that detention center, will not eliminate the hatred that their jihadist brothers have for our country and the detention center, regardless of where it’s located.
MATTHEWS: So, you don’t see any advantage in removing what has become an international symbol of American abuse, if you will?
SCHOCK: Well, first of all, let’s get some facts straight.
There have been no torture techniques, no alternative interrogation techniques, nothing negative in a bad way has happened at Guantanamo Bay. It is, however, the base where the largest known al Qaeda cell still exist and the largest amount of terrorists have existed here in our-in our world.
It once had 500 detainees. It started under the Bush administration, came down during the Obama administration down to 200 detainees. We processed out about 300 of them. Some of them went on trial. Some of them went back to their country.
But it begs the question, who’s left? Who are the 200 that remain?
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: OK, let me get this…
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Let me get this straight.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: On the policy issues-I got to the symbolic issue, which I’m thinking about myself. On the issue of Abu Ghraib, would you have closed that?
SCHOCK: Oh, absolutely. Obviously, it was…
MATTHEWS: OK. Would you have closed-would you have stopped the water-boarding?
SCHOCK: Well, I-I think that…
MATTHEWS: Would you have stopped it? If you had been president at this time, would you have done what President Obama has done and stopped the water-boarding? Because that’s another thing that people symbolically see as American, well, repression or tyranny or imperialism, whatever the hell they’re calling it. Would you have stopped the water-boarding?
SCHOCK: I would not-I would not limit our intelligence agencies’ ability to get information from people. If they have a ticking time bomb or-or some-a critical piece of information that can save American lives, I don’t believe we should-we should limit water-boarding or, quite frankly, any other alternative torture technique if it means saving Americans’ lives.
But I don’t think it should be standard practice.
MATTHEWS: So, you don’t have a-you don’t have a principled objection to torture?
SCHOCK: Well, I…
MATTHEWS: I’m asking you. As a matter-it’s not a matter of principle with you then; it would depend on the circumstances?
SCHOCK: I think, at the end of the day, our security forces are our major-our number-one goal is protecting American lives and keeping America safe. And I don’t see how…
MATTHEWS: So, the end would justify the means? In other words, you don’t have any problem with torture?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOCK: Chris, I don’t know how moving Guantanamo Bay to U.S. soil makes America safer.
MATTHEWS: OK, you’re changing-OK. I’m just trying to get your value system. On torture, you say it depends on the circumstances. You believe we should keep Gitmo?
SCHOCK: I do believe we should keep Gitmo. And I believe that-that-that we should not limit our intelligence personnel’s hands if and when they have reason to believe someone has critical some information that can save Americans’ lives.
MATTHEWS: You don’t believe in our adherence to the Geneva Conventions, in other words?
SCHOCK: Chris, you’re putting words in my mind. What I’m telling you…
MATTHEWS: No, I’m asking you, because you’re putting words out there.
SCHOCK: No.
MATTHEWS: You are saying we can use torture when you think it’s necessary. And I’m saying, if you think it’s necessary, then you must believe it’s OK to violate Geneva Conventions.
SCHOCK: I believe it’s important that we keep Americans safe. And if our intelligence personnel, as they have, believe that individuals have critical information, then they need to do what they can to keep Americans safe.
MATTHEWS: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. PHIL HARE (D), ILLINOIS: Chris, I would like to get in on this, if I could.
MATTHEWS: Let me go to Congressman Hare.
SCHOCK: Sure.
MATTHEWS: Your view, why is it a better move to put our detainees, some of them have been-I think most of them are going to have been convicted by tribunals…
HARE: Right.
MATTHEWS: … put them in American territory, rather than keep them out there in Cuba?
HARE: Well, Chris, let me just say, I think you heard from the very far right wing of the Republican Party. Colin Powell, Secretary Gates have all said, even George Bush said, to close Guantanamo Bay.
I don’t support torture ever. This is the United States of America. We lead by example. If someone was doing that to our troops, we would be screaming bloody murder.
These-these are detainees that are going to be brought to a maximum security prison. We haven’t had a person escape from one of those in 20 years. I don’t subscribe to the fear factor. I don’t subscribe to the fact that we have to be very, very afraid.
I will tell you what I’m afraid of, Chris. I’m afraid of getting up every day and seeing 12 to 14 percent unemployment in that region. This would cut the unemployment in half. I disagree with him. He should go up and tour the prison, which he hasn’t done.
And the other thing I would suggest that he does is take a look at every single county board, Republican and Democrat, every mayor, the Department of Homeland chief for the state of Illinois, the state police director for the state of Illinois; they all endorse this. This is a one billion dollar, over four years, 250 million dollar economic effort.
I have told my friends in the Republican aisle, if you can get me 3,000, 3,500 jobs, that’s fine; let’s sit down and talk about it.
This again goes back to: be afraid, be very, very afraid; they’re going to get you; they’re out to nail us. I don’t subscribe to it. I think that’s a fear factor. And I’m not going to be a part of it.
SCHOCK: Yes, first of all, I have enormous respect for my good friend Phil Hare, who we share Congressional districts with. But I would encourage him to visit Guantanamo Bay, which I have done.
HARE: Aaron, I don’t need to visit Guantanamo. We’re going to shut it down.
SCHOCK: If I could make my point. The point here is not about jobs. The point here is national security. The idea that closing Guantanamo Bay has become an economic stimulus package for Illinois, I think, is not the argument the administration needs to be making right now.
(CROSS TALK)
MATTHEWS: Gentlemen, I need a fact check here. Isn’t it true that the local people want these jobs? Isn’t it true that the local people, Mr. Schock, want-the local people in the area affected want these jobs, want that facility? Isn’t that true?
SCHOCK: Yes. Local elected officials want it.
HARE: Ninety five percent of the people in the area want it.
(CROSS TALK)
SCHOCK: — the state of Illinois, which shows the majority of Illinoisans are still opposed to bringing Gitmo to Illinois.
HARE: You haven’t talked to them, Aaron. I have. Let me just say this, Chris, if I could. I am never going to support doing away with doing away with the Geneva Convention. I don’t believe in torturing people under any circumstances. This is the best country on the planet. We lead by example here.
Look, every Republican, every Republican mayor, every Democratic mayor, every economic person I’ve spoken to-they’re not going to get out of this facility. And for heaven’s sakes, when, oh when, are we going to get away from get up every morning America and you have to be afraid, because they’re coming to get you.
No, they’re not. We want jobs in this area. With all due respect, if you can find 3,500 jobs for that area, I will meet you tomorrow morning for coffee. You tell me how we go about getting them. These are going to be good paying jobs.
MATTHEWS: I have to go back to Mr. Schock. One of the issues that’s been raised by the Republicans, by the critics of this plan, is that we don’t have the capability to keep people in these maximum security prisons, that they’ll escape. Is that one of your concerns, that these people will escape?
SCHOCK: No. Look.
MATTHEWS: No is your answer? No is your answer?
SCHOCK: Let me answer it. I have-
MATTHEWS: You said no.
SCHOCK: I have enormous respect for our law enforcement folks. I have no reason to believe that people would escape from Thompson or any other correctional facility. But I think there’s some important information that the public has yet to receive from the Obama administration, information that Katherine Sebelius asked for in Kansas, when they tried to bring it to Kansas, and they rejected information that Michigan asked for. And once Michigan refused it, they said thanks, but no thanks. Why did he have to come to his home state-
HARE: I can tell you why, Aaron. I can tell you why. We already have-
SCHOCK: Excuse me. Here’s the question: have detainees at Guantanamo Bay attempted to escape? There’s the answer to that question. It is classified. The president can release that information.
Second question, have their jihadist brothers attempted to come to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba? There’s an answer to that question. That information is classified. With that information, I think the views of the residents of Thompson, and the residents of all America would question whether or not bringing that facility there does pose a risk. and is in the best interests of national security.
HARE: Chris, we already have 340 — Chris, we already have 340 detainees in the United States of America. In Marion, Illinois, we have the Blind Sheikh.
SCHOCK: But why are we closing Guantanamo?
HARE: Excuse me. Because it’s an eye sore that needs to be closed.
SCHOCK: Because it’s the largest detention center in the world with detainees and-
(CROSS TALK)
HARE: I allowed you to finish. Aaron, I allowed you to finish, I hope you’ll let me. We need to close Guantanamo for the same reason that most of the generals have said, including General Powell: it is an eye sore. It is-it detracts from what we ought to be doing.
Look, we need to bring these people to justice. But for heaven’s sakes-look, I don’t buy this fear factor. I’m not going to subscribe to it today or tomorrow. I asked the director-I said, can you tell me in 20 years, how many people have escaped from a maximum security prison in 20 years? The answer is zero. Look, this is 150 million dollar building sitting empty. We’re just going to let it sit and run the fear clock out on everybody. I won’t be part of it.
MATTHEWS: Congressman Phil Hare, thank you, sir. Congressman Aaron Schock, thank you both for joining us. It’s a great debate. It will continue.
Thank you, Elaine. The transcript proves two things.
1. Chris Mathews is a rude, interrupting asshole and
2. Schock would do whatever it takes to keep America safe. You have to use your own personal powers of extrapolation to say that includes torture. He did NOT say that.
I don’t see a problem here, nor would I suspect a majority of Americans. Hence the lack of “outrage” you hear over said comments.
Anon: If Schock feels that he would do “whatever it takes to keep America safe,” then I wonder how we would feel should our citizens get arrested in a foreign country. I think most of us would be furious if our citizens were tortured. We can’t have it both ways. What happened to the Geneva Convention? I’m very disappointed in Aaron Schock. His desire to climb the Republican ladder is sooooo transparent. As an independent, I will never vote for him again. He’s very adept at positioning himself in a way that will shoot him to the top. Before he went to Wash, I didn’t think he was such an extreme right-winger. Too bad …